Enjoyed this recent discussion regarding the definition of verification and validation held on the 30.10.16 on Twitter. I have placed an ‘A’ next to author of tweet. It appears that Graham Stewart has the final definitive word due to the use of ISO 9001.
Acronyms & Initialisms:
IM = Information Manager
CIC = Construction Industry Council
DCW = Digital Construction Week
PLQs = Plain Language Questions
A Graham H Stewart @StewartGH1970 19h
@CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding CIC IM states validation of data – verification can only be done by the author
A Andy Boutle @AndyBoutle 19h
@StewartGH1970 @CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding haven’t we got it back to front again here G?
A Graham H Stewart @StewartGH1970 18h
@AndyBoutle @CaseyRutland @markturnerBIM @DRossiter87 @KevinJFielding not according to discussions as last #bim4free @ShaunF1969
@StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle correct, validation is structure of data (no subject knowledge req).Verification is actual value (knowledge req)
@liccle_em @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle yep yep! – this is also the way its being taught at schools (my presentation at DCW was on this)
@kantrellk @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle at least it shows I listened to you!
A John Adams @Johnad25 15h Durham, England
@liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 @AndyBoutle think of a credit card. A valid card No. and expiry doesn’t mean you can verify payment.
A Andy Boutle @AndyBoutle 15h
@Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 nice analogy
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 and that is why someone independent should verify the data
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 14h
@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Nope. An independent person can only validate. Author must verify the exact values are correct.
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 actually it should be the person who set the data requirements
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 but the client/agent should check to ensure teams delivered
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 14h
@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 That’s the Information Manager’s job.
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 yep see my last post as well
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 14h
@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Information Manager can be anyone and usually changes throughout project.
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 I’m talking about handover verification IM should do it client check
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 14h
@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 You mean handover validation. Not possible for anyone to verify other than original author. This hasn’t changed with BIM.
A Nick Tune @nick_tune 14h Black Pill, Wales
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 nope, set data requirements, then IM verifies, client checks
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 14h
@nick_tune @AndyBoutle @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Nope. Author verifies. IM validates. Client accepts. Never ever seen a client check detailed information. That’s why they pay professionals.
A Andy Boutle @AndyBoutle 14h
@bondbryanBIM @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Rob If the IM verifies all data they would have to be expert in all
A Terry Gough @drummytam69 13h
@AndyBoutle @bondbryanBIM @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 The IM is only validating that the PLQ’s have been answered therefore no need to be expert in all things, it’s a supporting role.pic.twitter.com/0K7roAN0Tz
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 13h
@drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Validates in line with information requirements, not PLQs. PLQ generates information requirements.
A Terry Gough @drummytam69 13h
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Splitting hairs me thinks.
A Terry Gough @drummytam69 13h
@bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @liccle_em @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 None of the activities undertaken in the role of Information Management involve taking on design responsibility.
@drummytam69 @bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 which is why they cannot verify data…
@drummytam69 @bondbryanBIM @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 e.g only the architect can verify the door data values
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 12h
@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 I have some visual validation checks I can perform on architects models as IM. E.g. Can check vision panel, over panel, sidelight data.
A Bond Bryan Digital @bondbryanBIM 12h
@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Still not verification but it can check physical geometry matches data.
@bondbryanBIM @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 because you having something to compare against
@bondbryanBIM @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 what u cant do is say if that glazing is needed or not
A Bond Bryan Digital@bondbryanBIM 12h
@liccle_em @drummytam69 @AndyBoutle @nick_tune @Johnad25 @kantrellk @StewartGH1970 Exactly. 🙂
And the final word …
A Graham H Stewart @StewartGH1970 18h18 hours ago
BS ISO 9001:2015 – validation activities are conducted to ensure that the resulting products and services meet the requirements for the specified application or intended use.
A Graham H Stewart @StewartGH1970 18h18 hours ago
BS ISO 9001:2015 – verification activities are conducted to ensure that the design and development outputs meet the input requirements